Host: Let's start this show off with John's first thoughts on Larry Carlton.
John Stix: Interesting, interesting player. He began by watching television, loving Gene Autrey and Roy Rogers. And at a very young age, unlike most of us, he didn't get into rock and roll. It was an album by Gerald Wilson called "The Moment of Truth." The guitar player that inspired him Joe Pass. So he went from country music right into jazz. The only blues album he had for a very long time his grandmother gave him, "B.B. King: King of the Blues." Until he was 20, that was it. It was jazz and that one blues album.
Host: Somebody told me at The Boftom Line in New York City that "A Whole Lot Of Love" by Led Zepplin was one of Larry Carlton's big things when it hit..
Stix: Rock was happening very big when he finally jumped into it. It was full-blown and doing very, very well. And he mentioned to me as well that "A Whole Lot Of Love" by Zeppelin was something that stuck in his head. The sound of Cream came into the mix, so all of a sudden we have somebody that's well-schooled and well-versed in the intricasies of jazz. He feels the passion and the simplicity of the blues and the fire of rock music. And it all melts together here.
Host: At the gig at the Bottom Line the other night, Larry treated the crowd to the opening bars of "Don't Take Me Alive." Charlie Lico, Larry's manager, talked more to Pete Fogel about that...
Pete Fogel: Charlie told me he was trying to convince Larry into incorporating some Steely Dan melodies into his show since so many people at the gigs were yelling for Steely Dan songs. I think that was Larry's first try and the crowd went nuts. (Turning To John) John, you were telling me about Robben Ford, an excellent guitar player. Robben was Larry's inspiration for his first album by which everyone knows as "Larry Carlton ... Mr. 335." TelI us about that John...
Stix: For many, many years, Larry was doing studio work. He had played with The Crusaders. He was doing this for many years and he wanted to break out. He wanted to gain his own identity. Like most players, he was looking for input ... outside input, and in this case, he got it from a wonderful guitar player Robben Ford. He (Carlton) thought "Wow, Robben is combining all the things that I would like to combine in being aggressive in my guitar playing, in making a melodic statement, putting a lot of feeling and power into it, and that really comes out on "Mr. 335." On that particular album, out of all the records he did for Warner Brothers, that's the one where he'll say, "I was going for it all the way, I wasn't thinking about listeners, I wasn't thinking about pleasing musicians. I just wanted to put myself into fifth gear and push myself to the limit." And like so many great players' first albums, that became the standard. That's the album that everybody holds up as... "Larry Carlton."
Host: Larry Carlton did a lot of work with Steely Dan. You and I were out there, Pete. All you hear is "Steely Dan, Steely Dan!" coming from the crowd. (To John) What do you know about another Dan album?
Stix: It's interesting to note that Walter Becker and Donald Fagen are working and there very well "may be" another Steely Dan album, if all goes well, and it has for over a year...
Host: And Larry Carlton will be on the record?
Stix: We don't know. There are some interesting stories though.
Pete: I spoke with Larry last week and he hasn't heard from Donald or Walter yet. They used Steve Khan a lot on the "Gaucho" album, but when Donald went out on his own, he used Larry as his main guitar player.
Host: Donald Fagen said something about Larry Carlton that you were telling me about, John -- what an excellent technician he is, but also has the heart with the blues...
Stix: Yes, Lar said "With all Steely Dan albums, the soloists have to have the blues. They have to be able to feel it, and to play it." And the album "The Royal Scam" is considered by many to be among the great guitar albums and great Steely Dan albums, of all time. And Walter Becker, as well, puts the reason that album is so important to guitarists is all because of Larry Carlton.
Pete: "Kid Charlemagne" really started off the record with a bang.
Stix: Absolutely. In fact, Larry will say that it was the highlight of his session career.
Host: I heard at one point in Larry's career, he kinda wanted to step out of the guitar light, so to speak, and move into producing.
Stix: I think it was during the "Sleepwalk" period. He had a child, was very into his family life. He said, "Look, I'm sorta giving up on the guitar sweepstakes of being in the limelight and I just want to concentrate on being a producer. I aIso want to concentrate on being with my family." And at the time, he produced The Gatlin Brothers, Bill Withers and he was also learning by producing himself. And then, as time went on, I spoke to him a short while ago and he said, "You know, John, no matter what, I now know, that the gift that Larry Carlton has is as a guitar player." And so he has come back to it. And that is what "Last Nite," the live album is all about. He felt that since the band was so hot, interestingly enough, he funded this album himself. He said "This band is great. I gotta get it down on wax. If somebody wants to put it out, fine. 'Cause I think they will at some point." So he did this because he loved it and then MCA, his record company, bought it after-the-fact.
Pete: John, Larry became famous with 335 guitar. And right now, Larry mentioned to me that he's using the 335 as a spare. He hadn't picked it up in over a year, until John said "I love the show, but how come you're not using the 335 anymore?' Well, the second show that night, Larry picked up the 335, blew the dust off of it, and mentioned the conversation with John. Why did he lay off the 335? He's now using a Valley Arts guitar.
Stix: Well, he discovered two things: One, that the 335 had a very low, bassy sound. He found himself playing high up on the neck. He said, "Hey, I'm not using the whole range of my instrument." Two, he picked up a guitar from a friend of his, Dean Park, also a fine player from L.A...
Pete: He played on "Rose Darling" on "Katy Lied"...
Stix: Yes, that's right. And Carlton said, "Boy, this neck feels like a flyweight. I could do anything I want with this. Why am I struggling to push the notes out. I can zip and run." And somehow he switched guitars.
Host: To a lot of people, he still is "Mr. 335"...
Stix: He still is "Mr. 335." In fact, I told him, "Larry, you come out, you don't play this 335 guitar that you're so famous for. It's like the Jolly Green Giant coming out and he's yellow. If you pick up that 335, you're gonna get a standing ovation without doing anything."
Host: Let's talk alout Larry's record, "ALone, But Never Alone."
Stix: That brought a whole new audience to Larry and it was really based on upon playing the acoustic guitar which was something he has never done, never thought of before. Like always he composed the songs the night before the sessions...
Host: I can't believe that...
Pete: Larry is something else. You know, the tone, technique, ear and imagination -- he plays with his heart, and that's why Larry Carlton is the best player around.
Stix: And if you want to hear him unadorned, playing melodies, "Alone, But Never Alone" is the album to do it. And I would say if Larry pointed to one person for melody, he would point to John Coltrane and specifically an album called "Ballads." And Larry's often said to me, "If you can, as a player, take a song ... take a Beatles song, just play the melody and make it sing ... and make it go to somebody's heart ... don't make it a melody on the way to a solo... and make it as heartfelt as you can." That's on that acoustic album and it brought a lot of people to Larry as a brand new audience.